/dis/ - Discussion

Cats don't have as much thinking capacity as we do. They aren't capable of processing abstract things as well as we do.

While I believe that cats are not that far behind humans in abstract thinking abilities, but what matters is that cats to not have any reasons to think about that kind of questions as they lack the certain functions of the brain entirely.
Animals do not have fantasies and they just do not even think about "what if" scenarios they do not create virtual worlds like humans.

Everything else seems to be same as human beings

So when a cat sees you do something useful he just thinks how to do same, but then they notice that they have not big enough as humans or that they do not have fingers to do that job and then they stop thinking about that.

what is interesting that cats often ask for help some events I know are that cat came asking to remove fishbone stuck in his throat and other time cat brought her dead kittens probably asking to revive them or something.
so they definitely see humans as very capable companions but they do not trust anyone that much and will not rely on you unless there is no other choice.

Omg Onix that makes me want to cry.

I'm so sorry kittens.

They wonder if we're gods when they wonder if we can revive tjeir kittens, in some sense.

>>5291

>While I believe that cats are not that far behind humans in abstract thinking abilities, but what matters is that cats to not have any reasons to think about that kind of questions as they lack the certain functions of the brain entirely.

I believe they're pretty far behind on that, lacking a neocortex and all... but I do believe that they (and many other animals) have a sort of physics simulation 'engine' that enables them to to predict the motion of a falling object for example. This also *probably* allows them to understand cause and effect to e certain degree, though due to their inferior abstraction and inference capabilities they can't really do it on human level.

>Animals do not have fantasies and they just do not even think about "what if" scenarios they do not create virtual worlds like humans.

Most probably you are right about this - they can probably run simple heuristic simulations so that they can hunt effectively or perceive danger and get out of its way.

>what is interesting that cats often ask for help some events I know are that cat came asking to remove fishbone stuck in his throat and other time cat brought her dead kittens probably asking to revive them or something.
so they definitely see humans as very capable companions but they do not trust anyone that much and will not rely on you unless there is no other choice.

My dog comes to me for help sometimes too, so while I don't really believe that animals have an elaborate view of us or see us as helpful, they might have analogue thought patterns that enable them to see us as sources of help.

Alas, these were my thoughts on the matter. I can't be 100% certain of my worldview on this matter as I have not yet studied the brain in depth.

>>5294
I woud not think that cats can have concept of god
even if we are much bigger and far more capable, cats will bravely fight us to defend their interests or totally ignore us in situations when we pose them danger, so they obviously treat us as equals.

>>5298
>>they can't really do it on human level
You overestimate average human level. LOL

>>see us as helpful, ... see us as sources of help.

I believe this is pretty much same thing.

They essentially see you as the head of their "clan" or "nest"... particularly with the frequency with which you find and share food with them, and regularly show dominance.

As for the rest of it, probably not. Like a lot of other predatory animals, when not looking for something to eat, fuck or fight, they just sleep, or engage in basic social bonding behaviour. They don't think particularly deep thoughts, and don't sit around entertaining them. There's probably some kind of measurable consciousness there, maybe some flavour of rudimentary thought rather than just instinct, muscle memory and some basic information processing to tie it all together, but there's an awful lot of evolution between where they are and anything that could really class as language, abstract cognition, culture, etc. Including any kind of god-worship or trying to work out how you do the things you do, beyond simple imitation (which is the same as mama cat teaching kittens to hunt...). Crows, maybe even rats and some parrots are almost certainly smarter, in the terms you mean. A cat's head may seem larger than theirs but the portion of it given over to the braincase is actually kinda small.

It's somewhat similar for dogs too, though of course their heads vary in size quite a bit, and their apparent intelligence and countenance covers a wide range. But the main difference in their behaviour vs cats is really down to their being domesticated from a pack-oriented, coordinated pursuit and team-hunt ancestor, with a distinct social hierarchy that is rarely open to challenge other than if the existing alpha dies of natural causes or misadventure, and a need to do some basic problem solving in coming up with new team strategies on the fly if the old way no longer works. Vs a clan/pride oriented ancestor that normally hunted solo, relying on stalking then pouncing, or chasing down startled prey over a relatively short distance, and with group leadership being a fairly ephemeral and sometimes frequently changing thing, with battles for dominance and sorting out the pecking order being a common thing, which is why otherwise docile cats can sometimes become a bit hostile... And they're also, strangely, more promiscuous; typically only alphas get breeding rights in canine groups, and any action betas/omegas/etc of either sex get has to be done on the sly... and you'd better hope the alpha couple are in a good mood, maybe already looking after their own pups, when your litter arrives. Felines nominally have a dominant breeding pair, or male with harem, but particularly the smaller ones are a little less over protective of their genetic monopoly, not needing anything like the same range or absolute exclusive hunting rights within it as their big savannah and jungle roaming cousins, so they're happier to just fuck like crazy and then, at least in more naturally formed clans, raise the kittens in a fairly communal, laissez-faire, one-big-family manner, even if there's not actually that much in the way of shared genes.

Cognition-wise, they're relatively similar. For one thing, they're very bad at object permanence and noticing the passage of time... somewhat like a human infant at about one year old... as well as situational vs procedural memory. All things that are somewhat necessary for any kind of theory of mind, musing on the future, hypothesising over matters that are immediately beyond their ken. It's probably also why they're easy to train with pavlovian or operant conditioning. For example dogs most likely don't actively remember "playing up = being yelled at, being nice = treat"... it's just something that becomes embedded in the unconscious procedural memory. The "good" and "bad" things become known, but they have no concept of *why*. It's almost like growing additional instincts.
(and yes, cats are trainable, but it's even more of a nightmare in terms of work and backsliding, and most people stop after getting them to use the litter tray and come for their dinner when called)

>>5298
Cats have a neocortex.