No.15147
There is nothing unethical about AI but it is quite incapable of generating anything complex or specific so there are big problems with guro and I suspect it will stay that way for quite long.
The only way to generate anything decent seems to be by using inpainting where you tell AI to draw something in specific place then try many many times until something good comes out
Otherwise AI does not understand sentence structure and it can't even understand prompt telling it to draw a girl in blue dress holding red umbrella it will make some mash of colors in all places
No.15150
Learn 2 Draw mate
No.15375
An additional issue will be – sooner or later – that the prompt text is filtered to avoid inappropriate results. aiteensoldiers posted some nice ai-generated pictures in 3dcg (
https://boards.guro.cx/3dcg/res/44797.html), but encountered problems with the ability of the system (
https://boards.guro.cx/3dcg/res/44797.html#44825) and the available motifs (
https://boards.guro.cx/3dcg/res/44797.html#44954). Beside the low predictability of the results (prompting is already an art itself) is the error rate still very high. If you take a closer look, you'll find some girls suffering from strabismus or with missing or additional body parts. It looks like the "intelligence" isn't intelligent enough to remember – while working on a part of the image – what it created before in an other part. OTOH this might add some funny contortions to a splatter picture. :)
No.15378
Oh no, even now you cannot really use public available services to generate any "interesting" pic.
To create the one above I used my own pc, with a very old nvidia 1050 (it takes about 3 minutes per image like that one).
Not only are prompts "sanitized" but the model (the trained source of reference for the creation of the images) is usually trained on a safe image base, those that let you do nsfw themed images cannot really do younger looking people, the anime types stay away from loli content, loli models are kept separated from guro sources, etc…
This means that even on your own pc, if you use a pre-trained model set you cannot really do many things.
I'm starting to explore how to train my own but it's going to be very time consuming, especially since I don't have a good dataset of correctly tagged guro images.
No.15383
>>15378> […] the model […] is usually trained on a safe image base, […] even on your own pc, […] you cannot really do many things.Yes, this is an additional obstacle. And there might be some more limitations by your hardware. I assume you don't have your own supercomputer with endless memory? Three minutes for a picture like the one you posted are an amount of time one can live with. But even with the file space and the memory that is available today in the consumer section your PC will be way behind that what a company can afford. Won't it?
> […] train my own [model] but it's going to be very time consuming, especially since I don't have a good dataset of correctly tagged guro images.Is there a way to merge some models? If a direct solution is not possible, may be it can be achieved by taking a detour via generating "pseudo topical" training images. I am thinking of feeding the same prompts to different models to get similar poses, e. g. a nude woman sitting on a chair, a (probably dressed) loli sitting on a chair and a headless corpse sitting on a chair. These would be used to train a new model.
No.15385
>>15383> […]I assume you don't have your own supercomputer with endless memory? hardly, unfortunately my pc is late 2016 and thus quite dated. Luckily it has a good gpu, if an older one, and thus it can be worked on.
>>15383> […]Three minutes for a picture like the one you posted are an amount of time one can live with.I depends, since these things are so hit and miss you have to do lots of retry and the time needed to obtain something decent grows.
>Is there a way to merge some models? It can be done merging existing models, but the results are often mangled and not in a "good" way.
I'm trying to find out what it takes to actually train a model but I believe a good dataset is absolutely necessary at the very least. I've seen example of models trained with as few as 300 pictures.
Now, the pictures I have, been browsing gurochan since 2005. But those should be selected, cleaned up and most of all, classified and tagged. That's quite the workload and I'm not sure I can do it alone.
No.15391
>>15385> […] these things are so hit and miss you have to do lots of retry […]Is there a random element or gives at least the same prompt the same result?
> […] models trained with as few as 300 pictures.But are they helpful? This narrowed input may lead to an also narrowed output – like a filter bubble. If a model could be trained with just one pic it would give you this pic on every prompt, since there is no real intelligence but only statistics.
No.15434
Can we get a moratorium on all AI art? It all sucks and should be banned outright as spam.
If an artist's work isn't good, at least you know they're working on it and got something to look forward to. And if you find a piece that's good, you have a whole body of work to discover.
AI has none of that. It's just horse shit blending what it's seen together in a smear without a thought. The whole point of Gore is the humanity.
No.15437
>>15434well there is not that much of it here and it is more of technology demonstration than art so far, with the purpose of research and development of new models and techniques. But yeah, it should not be posted without limit without any meaning or context.
No.15442
>>15434most of 3D art sucks and there's a ton of it but it's not banned and for good reasons: some good artists will find the new media appealing and we will all be better for it.
In the meantime just like there is 3dcg section, I cannot see any problem with having an AI section.
In 3dcg there's already at least one thread of AI generated guro art. It's nothing really good but it's very early days.
No.15443
We JUST need a dedicated board for this AI stuff, and let things sort themselves out. (we also have a /f, but I hardly visit it as an example. AND it does have updates, so it's existance matters)
No.15444
>>15443>we also have a /f, but I hardly visit it as an exampleIronically, that's a pretty good reason why there should NOT be an AI board. Too many boards leads to inactivity. I say the AIfags should stick to one general thread on /art/, and if those threads fill up, maybe let them have two threads. Most of gurochan's userbase draws guro, and AI is basically like spitting in those guys' faces. If kaguya added an AI board, they'd probably all leave in droves and go to reddit or some shit. Good thing kaguya basically abandoned this place, so he probably won't even consider the idea of giving AI people a board.
No.15454
>>15444People won't leave because an AI board is added! Lol! But they'll stop complaining about AI being in /art as well as in /g and /3dcg. It needs it's own board. Not just own thread.
No.15455
>>15454>It needs it's own boardThey can either stick to one thread, or be banned outright. AI is cancer.
No.15458
>>15455That's just your opinion. There are people who like that kind of content.
just like /s /fur. AI is improving a lot, and if it had it's own board,you could just ignore it altogether, and not be so hateful about it when you'll stumble on a thread. It shouldn't be so hard to understand. Try steelmanning a bit. The world doesn't revolves around you.
No.15459
>>15458An AI board would make the site look like shit. AI is cancer, learn how 2 draw
No.15461
Sorry, but that is bullshit. AI is just a tool like a paint brush or a pencil. The whole hype is only because of its name. A "stochastic image generator" or a "mathematical text modifier" would not cause such a fear or such exaggerated expectations as it a "artificial intelligence" does. The developers choose the name to describe the way the algorithms work, but Joe Sixpack made it a buzz word.
A own board for AI stuff would be the best. But without this AI-generated contend should have own threads at 3dcg, because they are computer generated and often look even more realistic as "handmade" 3d.
No.15462
>>15459wow, for people on such an extreme chan, which should open up minds about tolerance of kinks and fetishes, there are some shitty snobby people around here.
If you don't have anything positive to add to the discussion (and if you cannot be bothered with basic courtesy) then shut the fuck up and go away.
No.15463
>>15462Exactly. Imagine being so against an AI board, treating it as a cancer, but at the same time being ok with depictions of woman being gutted in a sexual way. The level of hypocrisy is over 9000.
No.15464
>>15461>>15462>>15463Learn. How. 2. Draw. Git gud fagitz
No.15465
I personally value real artists more than people that type prompts in an AI image generator, and most REAL artists hate AI, so, naturally some of them would probably get offended and leave GC if this site blatantly supported AI. It should be contained to one general thread, and that's final.
No.15467
>>15465
>I personally value real artists morelike those using photoshop on a digital tablet with a virtual pen?
Or do you mean people with oil colors, brushes and linen canvas?
Do you see how absurd your kind of argument is? Art is art, if someone spends tens or hundreds of hours refining the skill to produce a very good AI image, I appreciate it.
And do not fool yourself, you can produce a good enough picture in a few minutes but to move from good enough to very good or excellent, you need to experiment, to try again and again, to hone your skill and vision. It takes time and dedication.
No.15468
>>15467Me, myself and I, don't like furries scat or freaks. Not litterature either. Roleplaying sucks. The kaki section is a joke. These boards are a cancer. Me, myself and I, request their removal. Me, myself and I, also want you guys who don't agree with me to leave this site I don't tolerate your opinions or tastes.
No.15469
>>15467I mean people on this website that know how to actually draw. It's a valued skill that takes hard work and dedication to master; typing prompts into an AI image generator takes next to no effort, and is in no way comparable to learning how to actually fucking draw. AI is quite frankly, used by lazy pricks that don't know how to contribute anything useful, so instead of applying themselves, working hard & grinding on artwork, they say "making an AI image is just as hard as learning how to draw!!!!!!! its just as valid!!!!!". You're lying to yourself because you're a no talent hack.
I have no problem with you or anyone else too cheap to commission using AI tools for personal spank bank purposes, but an entire board dedicated to a tool that steals from real artists? Fuck you and the AI generated horse you rode in on.
No.15471
>>15462+1
>>15463> […] 9000HAL? I mean: HAL 9000? ;)
>>15464> Learn. How. 2. Draw.Can you draw?
Can you draw good?
Does your work please the viewers eyes?
Does your work please not your eyes only?
If you answered four times "yes" then go ahead and draw something more significant than your text.
Otherwise: Learn. How. 2. Vanish.
>>15468Free advice: Subtract yourself.
>>15469
> […] It's a valued skill that takes hard work and dedication to master; …This is true and without artists there would be nothing to run any AI with.
> … typing prompts into an AI image generator takes next to no effort, …Typing is indeed much easier than to draw in a way thats more sophisticated than a little bit
scribbeling. But it is not about how to type, it's about what to type.
> … and is in no way comparable to learning how to actually fucking draw.Did you develop the application you use to send your contributions to this board by yourself. I guess not. It was created by a programmer, who had to learn what to type to get a program running. Prompting is very comparable to programming. The first steps might be easy like scribbeling or a "hello world" program. But with a lot of effort it becomes fine art, just like painting or program design.
No.15514
seeing some faggot flood threads with hundreds of the samey greasy looking anime girls with melting hands and mc escher backgrounds is just super annoying
No.15557
I find "AI" (predictive text and image generators hyped up by doomerists) for both stories and images to be boring, annoying and the opposite of exciting - there's not a person on the other end telling you a story, it's just an unattributive search engine remixing existing stuff. Photoshoping a new head on an existing picture with 0 effort put into it has more artistic value, since at least an alive person made the hundred tiny decisions of which existing picture, which head, how low a quality they were satisfied with, etc.
I don't really have an opinion on thread vs board vs ban, but can we please stop the proliferation one way or another? It's really easy to flood the website with automatically generated images / writeups with all the artistic value of spam.
No.15570
Ai is a tool, like any tool, there will people using it to do things you like or don't like.
Using this site as an example, any monkey can draw a severed head and photoshop blood everywhere. Not any monkey can make it look good.
The same applies to ai. Any monkey can type in a prompt, but not any monkey can successfully, using 1.4 generate violence or gore with ai-art. Most "artists" hate ai because it's revealing that they're just an average monkey. The above average monkey has nothing to worry about, the ones doing the bare minimum are the ones in a panic about it.
No.15571
>>15570there are no good "AI artists", I'd sooner have a million autistic MSpaint scribblers than a single subcontinental who thinks they're gods gift because they can make a computer shit out a melting anime chick
No.15572
>>15571Again, people will use the tool to do things you don't like. Would you ban photography because someone took a picture of a politician you don't like? Actually, that's a good jumping off point.
Photography. Anyone can do it and photographers were seething mad when cameras became more and more affordable to the general public. Now everyone with a iphone is a potential photographer and the below average photographers are desperate to set themselves apart from the pumpkin spice chugging bimbo at starbucks and are willing to spend thousands to do so.
Meanwhile 200 years ago, photography wasn't considered art. It was called a mutation, theft, an insult to art, the death of art. Photography stole your soul, photography would allow you steal art from galleries and put them out of business, photography would allow you to duplicate the mona lisa and no one would ever pay to go see it!
It always boils down to money. If the common person can do something that's been gatekept to the rich? It's bad, it's awful, it needs to be regulated and stopped.
Anyway-
You can stay mad at the melted anime bimbo guys all you want. They're just doing what they want without someone slapping their hands and demanding tribute. I'm not going to lie and say it's not annoying when someone posts every single image they've managed to generate, or doesn't take the extra steps to make it look better, but hey, look at Deviant art.
It's filled with autistic MS painters who think they're gods, who refuse to learn art history or even the basics of composition and perspective- they post every single piece of garbage that leaves their fingertips with no eye for quality. It's the same thing.
No.15573
>>15572As a niche art style lover I remain neutral on this topic, although at least when I see generic anime ryona art drawn by a human, I can admire that someone actually spent several hours illustrating and shading it.
No.15578
AI art would be interesting if the artist is actually playing with the capabilities of the AI, deliberately making something psychedelic or complex or interesting. "Oooh I managed to get it to render a realistic hanged girl" is not AI art. AI art is "I fed the AI a list of protestant names and here's what it spit out". THat's a properly thought out gag that a human actually put thought into.
Like how in photography there's a difference between a carefully staged photo with good lighting and composition, and your badly cropped vacation photos in front of famous monuments that cut off half of them.
No.15579
>>15572 Photography can be art, but not every single photo out there has artistic value and is worth uploading for people to see. The same applies to automatically generated images, and most of what I've seen on this website is the trash you delete when you go through your camera's log at the end of the day.
No.15608
>>15527Well how do you exactly create a character card that catered to guro stuff?
No.15613
Seriously can something PLEASE be done about AI shit in /art. /art is for stuff specific people draw. AI is not a specific people
No.15619
I do wonder if AI can fill in the drawthread requests that haven't been filled? It seems many end up unfulfilled
No.15622
>>15619Nope not going to work.
At the current state image AI is dumb as brick it can do only very few things
If you ask something outside of it competence it will produce nonsense
as well as no chance to produce anything specific either
language models are in order of magnitude smarter than Image Models as what you can expect from 2B parameter model when language models have 30B parameters.
This is what openai wanted to hide from us when releasing that dumb stable difusion toy but also keeping ChatGPT closed.
No.15623
>>15619If you want to do this please do it elsewhere. An AI board or quarantine thread… not all over everywhere!
No.15632
Like how 3DCG is it's own separate board. It's cool and just as good in its own way, it's just different enough to be worth separating. Same for AI.
No.15796
Seriously, please do something about the AI bs. People who use it are already suggesting its use to people who don't. Ew ew ew
No.15797
>>15796AI is useful tool and it is a waste not to use it when appropriate
It is just bad when it is used inappropriately
Same as photography can be great art, and it can be plain trash spam if you shoot everything around and post it online.
No.15820
>>15797Yeah, pretty much.
And if you spam, say, some sort of art imageboard with photos…
Look, I know there's no rule against posting AI art/writing. But fact is, *some of us* are uncomfortable with it and upset/annoyed by not being able to avoid it. IMHO it's worth doing a thing about. It is in a sense just a matter of medium, similar to 3DCG.
No.15821
>>15820Well if you get uncomfortable about something then you need therapy as there should be no things that make you uncomfortable. :)
Also rules against AI use are stupid, same as rules against using pencil. as again the issue is not the fact of Ai use but rather the inappropriate AI use and low quality content. same as the example with photos. here the issue is not posting them in the wrong place but posting too much of them.
AI dont seem to be causing any problems on GC as it is all contained in just few threads as if it had separate board and should not bother anyone.
No.15839
>>15821> Well if you get uncomfortable about something then you need therapy as there should be no things that make you uncomfortable. :)Go sit on a cactus. As you are a well-adjusted person it should be quite comfortable <3
> AI dont seem to be causing any problems on GC as it is all contained in just few threads as if it had separate board and should not bother anyone.Those threads are taking up first page space in boards that have other threads too, that get pushed out by the AI stuff.
No.15840
>>15839LOL
Well I would rather say that it is unfortunate that nobody posts non AI stuff. and not only no content but not even comments.
and if not those threads then GC would be almost completely dead
So if you don't like that AI is pushing other content down how about pushing it up too ;)
Although I do admit that it is a bit of a problem where active threads constantly stay on top and make it hard to notice updates on other threads
No.15876
>>15527I wonder what kind of AI text website do you use?
No.15877
>>15840Keep in mind I've for example been staying away from /art/ just bc of the random AI generated content in there. I'm not seeing or commenting on the actual art because… =>
No.15879
>>15840(And I can't get in the mood to write anything for /lit/ because the top thread is always the AI shit)
No.15882
>>15877I don't know for how long you are on GC but there was not much more activity before AI appeared. So I doubt if AI has any effect
But you essentially present interesting dilema: like if people stop posting AI you may write some story yourself or post some comments :)
do you think without Ai gurochan would become more active?
For now i see that the only time when people post anything is when they complain about something or argue.
No.15897
>>15882Honestly it just seems those who fear or hate AI are the "Fire scary, electricity bad, Thomas Edison was a witch" crowd.
I've seen idiots who hated 3D rendered art for fucks sake! Is time just a circle?
I would say this though: if you feel like you got something to prove writers and artists, try to make a better version of the AI made art\stories. Can you?
No.16080
>>15897Notably, we have a separate 3DCG board, because a different medium deserves differentiation.
I am once again (on anon before) proposing a new board to centralize AI stuff. It's a medium that deserves exploration, but there's no call for mixing it with traditional images and writing.
And yes, I do think it would make gurochan more active, by making the site more attractive to both people who are interested in AI (as it will be centralized for them) and people who aren't (as they won't have to encounter it all the time).
And for the last anon, go and read for yourself :)
No.16104
>>15879But that's a good thing that it's all contained to one thread which can be easily scrolled past and ignored. It's only a problem when it's a flood of AI threads, and that's not happening on /lit/ thankfully. As long as we can keep it that way, then it's all good.
>>16080Yes, this makes perfect sense. Just have a separate board for AI like we have one for 3D and then everyone's happy, both those who want to look for AI content and those who want to ignore it.